Hi Randy,

There is no guarantee this is the answer but it is possible the issue is rounding.  See the image below.  I posted this as a sample in payroll to show a client something today.  The lower part is what is on the data entry screen, the upper is the database level.

I don't know where the program stores the prepayment amount, where it checks tVenTrDt, tVenTr, tPmtHdr or tPurOrdr but you might find something similar in your file.  I also don't know if the program will round the amount before comparing but if not, then this could be the problem.  Using a discount of $0.01 might be all that's needed.

Hi Richard,

I thought that too, but there were no decimals beyond the penny showing in Access for tVentrDT, tVentr, or the other tables

BUT when I look at tPurOrder / tPoLine / tPOLineT / tPOTot I see the aftermath of an error:

tPurOrdr now shows:
dTotal
$ 236.47

tPOline now shows:
dPrice dTaxAmt
$ 103.28 5.16
$ 121.92 6.10

tpoLineT now shows:
bTaxAmtDef dTaxAmt
1 5.16 (was over-ridden to $5.17 on screen, item filled on first invoice)
1 6.10

tPOToT now shows:
dTaxAmt
$11.27

In entering the first invoice, I had to over-ride the $5.16 of tax to $5.17, so it may have gotten reset somewhere along the way.

I tried creating this PO & prepayment in a restored backup, had the same result.

Opened the sample file, set the GST rate to 5% and removed early payment discount from Inglewood Drafting Service, had the same result.

Steps to recreate are:
Create a PO with prepayment, two items:
1 x $103.28, override GST to $5.17
1 x $121.92, GST calculated at $6.10

Record first invoice for item 1 as 1 x $103.28, override GST again to $5.17 (it doesn't store the override). Change Prepayment Applied to match the $108.45 total, and post.

Record second invoice for Item 2 as 1 x $121.92, GST should calculate to $6.10. Prepayment applied of $128.02

Result is "Total prepayment being applied exceeds available prepayment.

If I change the prepayment applied amount to a penny less at $128.01, the invoice will post, "The order has been filled and removed from the system" but will only sort-of clear the prepayment. (still shows in the detail Aging report, doesn't show on the summary)

I believe that the tax amount on the first line gets recalculated, because the override is ignored. Because it's already filled nothing shows on screen to indicate that it has changed. 

I tried overriding the tax amount by a larger amount, and the second invoice can be posted against the prepayment.

So it only happens when there's a penny difference...?
 
But I want Sage to test this and figure out where it goes wrong.

I believe the program recalculates any sales tax when switching from orders to invoices. So if you overrode the tax at any stage, it will be recalculated at the invoice stage. It sounds like this has happened to you. With a partial order fulfilment, I am not sure what else they could do.

Ideally if you fill the order on the second invoice, then any prepayment left over should automatically be cleared (maybe giving the option of what happens to the user, even if a penny needs to be posted to adjust the total out of the vendor detail.

I can also see some cases where the order is filled, but the from the time of prepayment to the time of final invoicing, the pricing changes and the vendor still owes you money so there should be an option to leave the money on the aging for later deposit when a cheque is received/credit card refund is processed.

Richard S. Ridings said:

With a partial order fulfilment, I am not sure what else they could do.

I'd say they should never recalculate the original Purchase Order data.  It should stay overridden even if not every line overridden exactly the same way, in every invoice created from it.   Just to re-iterate, the program does not allow these particular correct amounts to be entered, even in the sample file.

The hidden sales tax amount that is recalculated was part of the original prepayment and the first invoice, and should have not affected entering the second invoice to use up exactly the remaining balance. 

Richard S. Ridings said:

Ideally if you fill the order on the second invoice, then any prepayment left over should automatically be cleared (maybe giving the option of what happens to the user, even if a penny needs to be posted to adjust the total out of the vendor detail.

I tried that, the prepayment isn't completely cleared, unfortunately.  The result of posting a smaller amount is a combination of the worst action in two places, leaving a difference in the journal and a phantom prepayment balance in the Aged A/P detail, while clearing the Purchase Order balance and making the prepayment inaccessible for adjustments on the other side.

Richard S. Ridings said:

I can also see some cases where the order is filled, but the from the time of prepayment to the time of final invoicing, the pricing changes and the vendor still owes you money so there should be an option to leave the money on the aging for later deposit when a cheque is received/credit card refund is processed.

The software seems to not use the payments header table at all for Purchase Order prepayments - No entry is created to apply to amounts owing or other purchases.   As you say, it would be good if they would take a look at how the whole thing works, and see if they could make all the parts work together.  The security on Payments is all-or-none so we can't allow *only* prepayments, which would be very handy.

Hi Randy,

I confirmed the same results today. In my testing I ignored the fact that you changed the sales tax but didn't really need to because I was assuming you were matching the vendors calculations.

I sent a message to someone at Sage to see if they could get someone to look at the issue at some point. I also mentioned the invalid cheque log caused by the Prepayment itself. This might take a bit of time to sort out and because it probably doesn't hit a lot of users, I would not expect to see a fix too quick.

The only thing I would suggest in the interim that you don't edit the sales tax amount and let the vendor complain about the penny. If they do, remind them they don't exist anymore ;)

Thanks Richard, that's great.

Yeah, it's something they should look pretty deep into. It seems the longer something's been broken the harder they are to convince, and the less likely to want to spend money fixing it. Back in the day we looked into every bug, because there's often more to a problem than the symptom found and reported.

And no, I don't expect quick fixes from Sage anymore. They provided good support on bug reports in the past (such as the Enhanced View redrawing for each line of an old invoice looked up), but the last few times it's more of a "well, then don't use that part" response or a 'shoot and shovel' non-response.

As an example, we handle a lot of 'core' (the old part of an exchange assembly) transactions in both CAD and USD, but the software can't grok that an Order could have a negative quantity!. This makes it necessary to keep track using spreadsheets and lists. The response on this was that this wouldn't change unless the software had actual 'credit notes' which wasn't likely to happen.

Purchase invoices seem to round *down* on negative USD amounts (instead of toward zero), so we can't post them without allowing negative inventory in single user mode, then entering the credit note, then disallowing negative inventory, then going back to multi-user mode. The response to this complaint was "you have the work-around we gave you", so there's your one free support call for the year.

I've seen this play out before with other software companies - they try to 'monetize' everything while improving nothing, including moving from trying to give end user training to trying to charge for it. Simply Accounting 2006 and 2007 came with a good tutorial workbook as a PDF. Now we have to buy it printed and coil bound for several hundred $$ plus the most expensive shipping I've ever seen, and much of the online program help is too vague, wrong, or missing altogether. Or order a 'Sage 50' book from a Canadian bookstore and find that it's all about the Peach Tree.

So that's my rant for Monday...

Randy

There was once a settings dialog that had a checkbox on it (can't remember which one). I clicked on the Help button to see what it was for. The help said if you wish to turn on the xxxx feature, click the checkbox to put a check mark in it, otherwise to turn it off, uncheck the box. I wanted to know why you would turn it on and what it did.

I'm hoping that now they are aware the Prepayment issue is causing a problem with their Audit trail, they will take a look at the whole thing and fix it. We will have to wait and see.

I won't bother continuing with your rant (not in the right mood) but I do find it interesting the new US website that's coming doesn't even have Sage 50 on it, so you might not have your book problem for much longer.

Richard S. Ridings said:

There was once a settings dialog that had a checkbox on it (can't remember which one). I clicked on the Help button to see what it was for. The help said if you wish to turn on the xxxx feature, click the checkbox to put a check mark in it, otherwise to turn it off, uncheck the box. I wanted to know why you would turn it on and what it did.

Maybe it was the floppy-disk friendly backup dialog box that had 'compress data...' as an option that did nothing.  Or maybe added a '1' to the end of the filename, which it still does.  I wonder if it would actually back up our data onto 187 floppy disks?

Richard S. Ridings said:

I do find it interesting the new US website that's coming doesn't even have Sage 50 on it, so you might not have your book problem for much longer.

From http://www.sage.com/us/sage-50-accounting/lp/peachtree   "Uniting our products under the same name simply helps us streamline how we deliver support and services to your business."  

Well that didn't work out, did it?   I hope the designer set 'Sage 50' and 'Peachtree' as variables.

Richard S. Ridings said:

I won't bother continuing with your rant (not in the right mood)

I'm going home for a nice lunch.  That should get me also not in the right mood to rant.

Randy

That link is the old site. Click on the "Try our new site" link at the top of that page. No Sage 50, no Sage 300, no Sage 100..... Is a sale coming? Are they finally retiring Business Vision?

Richard S. Ridings said:

Are they finally retiring Business Vision?

Maybe retiring all desktop software for SAAS.   I think I'll retire too.  Or maybe resurrect the 2013 software.